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 Forum index » General Discussion » Groentjuh's Server Forum » Feedback, Complains and Suggestion
Refabuse: Telvek (racism)
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Altair
Newbie poster

Joined: 09 Mar 2015
Posts: 35
Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
 Refabuse: Telvek (racism)

Hi everyone,

Sorry for being salty but this just has to stop. A lot of people think the refs are doing a poor job the last few months, but Telvek just went way to far once again.

Last week he already made racist remarks about black people. Djinghis (of all people) and I were calling him out that as being a ref you have set an example of good behaviour, not making racist remarks. He admitted it was racist remarks but didn't say sorry or anything. Naturally, the next few days Djinghis, me and other people who experienced the racism by Telvek, kept calling him out and also named him "racist". Telvek didn't really respond to that, nor did he mute/kick anyone.

Today I was online and I saw some people complaining about Telvek once again. I joined the chat and wrote "yeahh but we all know Telvek is a racist" of some sort. I was muted immediately, without stating a reason. Gridfon was also online and didn't do anything either.

I believe Telvek should NOT be a referee any longer. He is displaying racist behaviour and downplays/denies it when confronted with it, if he doesn't just mute you. For 13 years I've enjoyed Savage under different alias, but now I just want to disconnect whenever I see a blatent racist with referee powers online.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:36 pm
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Telvek
Newbie poster


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 185
Re: Refabuse: Telvek (racism)

Haha nice Nicklaming as Doritos etc.
You have some interesting Opinions, let's see:
1.
Altair wrote:

Last week he already made racist remarks about black people. Djinghis (of all people) and I were calling him out that as being a ref you have set an example of good behaviour, not making racist remarks. He admitted it was racist remarks but didn't say sorry or anything. Naturally, the next few days Djinghis, me and other people who experienced the racism by Telvek, kept calling him out and also named him "racist". Telvek didn't really respond to that, nor did he mute/kick anyone.


-> I think you guys cannot decide between a salty Joke, Sarcasm, Irony etc and serious racist Comments. Things like "I am no racist. Some of my best Slaves are black" are popular salty Jokes (sry for my kind of Humour).
I did NOT mean these ones srsly. Furthermore, I said that more and more people from Syria, Africa etc. come to Europe, unfortunately. In my Opinion there is a Difference between racist Remarks and some kind of realistic View. Europe (or at least Germany) has already too many refugees, I think we have enough. If this is a racist Remark for you, I cant help ya anymore^^

2.
Altair wrote:

Today I was online and I saw some people complaining about Telvek once again. I joined the chat and wrote "yeahh but we all know Telvek is a racist" of some sort. I was muted immediately, without stating a reason. Gridfon was also online and didn't do anything either.

Oh this Story, yes:
I already warned you (->Doritos blablabla...) to stop this Label as Racist. Somehow you ignored them. Today I also told you to shut up but you kept going. By the way, Gridfon asked me why and I also explained him the entire Story. I think if he have seen this as refabuse, he would have unmuted you^^

And that would be it. I am maybe a Patriot, I am maybe proud of my Country, but I am no racist. If u keep calling me like this, you should compute with Consequences.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:12 pm
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Gridfon
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Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 238
Re: Refabuse: Telvek (racism)

Telvek wrote:
Gridfon asked me why and I also explained him the entire Story. I think if he have seen this as refabuse, he would have unmuted you^^


I think that both of you are aware of what I think about today's mute, unless Telvek missed my /msg since he did not reply back. I never indicated a strong support or disagreement over this.
On the one hand, resolving personal conflicts with ref actions is a questionable solution unless (a) you would do the same to "defend" any other player, or (b) you are targeted for enforcing the rules (e.g. get flamed right after slaying a comm siege camper).
On the other hand, if you have a problem about someone being a ref, then consistently harassing the ref is not the best way to help the situation. (And I am saying this without being aware how consistent this is or how consistent it will become. However, I know how consistent it tends to become.)

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:42 am
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Telvek
Newbie poster


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 185
I am really not strict about Insults, no matter if its against me or any other player, cuz unfortunately Insults are nowadays a part of Savage(or any other MMO). Furthermore, I respect the Rules, anyhow I do not judge like a bot, that consantly punishes every Rulebreaker immediately. So I rather prefer (a). If a Player(in this Case, me) gets annoyed over a Week with Insults, Referees should act against this Move. Every Referee acts, punishes and ignores on his Way, deal with it

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:04 pm
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Altair
Newbie poster

Joined: 09 Mar 2015
Posts: 35
Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Hi there,

1) You admitted in game the remarks you made were racist and now you're saying something completely different. Quite strange, quite strange.

2) You did not warn me at all. You muted me after I said "Telvek is racist" once, something you said yourself a week before. Even more so, djinghis and other people were saying it as well all week long and they didn't get muted as far as I have seen.

Telvek you are not a good ref and you do not realise that as a ref you have to set an example. It would be wise if you would not be a referee anymore. Think of new players joining us for a game a there's this person who has ref-powers making racist remarks. I would be leaving ASAP. God we need more good referees like Gridfon.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:48 pm
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Groentjuh
Site Admin

Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 617
Location: World > Europe > Benelux > The Netherlands > The hague
Just posting the logs for reference. Not sure if I missed anything before or after...

Code:
Someone from x.x.x.x(2343) is trying to connect
Version: V_XR1 Client "x.x.x.x(2343)" connected, assigned to slot 68
Client 68 (Telvek's mother @ x.x.x.x(2343)) has entered the game
(31 68) Telvek's mother joined team 1


Code:
<Telvek> Telvek's mother change your name
(8 0) ^900Referee Telvek ^grenamed ^900Telvek's mother ^900to ^900mother ^900
Player 68 is now known as mother
<Doritos Mountain Dew Flavour> xD
<Doritos Mountain Dew Flavour> mother
<Doritos Mountain Dew Flavour> mother of a racist
Player 68 is now known as djinghis' grandfather


Code:
(T1)<djinghis' grandfather> show me your dick vip


Code:
Someone from x.x.x.x(2364) is trying to connect
Version: V_XR1 Client "x.x.x.x(2364)" connected, assigned to slot 11
Client 11 (Gridfon @ x.x.x.x(2364)) has entered the game


Code:
Client 68 called a vote:
Mute: Doritos Mountain Dew Flavour
called by: djinghis' grandfather ^w
<djinghis' grandfather> racist
<Doritos Mountain Dew Flavour> im not telvek
<djinghis' grandfather> damn ur right
(8 0) ^900Referee Telvek ^900has ^gmuted ^900Doritos Mountain Dew Flavour!^w
(8 0) Vote failed
<djinghis' grandfather> thnx for muting the racist Telvek

_________________


PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:32 am
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Altair
Newbie poster

Joined: 09 Mar 2015
Posts: 35
Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Thanks for looking it up! Like I said I said Telvek was a racist once or maybe at most a few times. This was 1 week after Telvek himself said things like "yeah im a racist so what?". I just really hope Telvek and other referees keep in mind they have to set an example for other Savage players and mostly for possible new players. We don't Savage to become like LoL where flaming is a must.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:34 pm
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Telvek
Newbie poster


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 185
With Irony, i mean Comments like "ye sure i am a racist so what? ". Nevertheless i am quite surprised Groentjuh didnt find my Warning, i was sure I wrote it. I wouldnt mind if you give me a Warning, Groen. Wink
By the way: I dont remember the Rule that Refs have to warn before they act, it is just polite. Well maybe I've read it wrong

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:50 pm
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djinghis
Newbie poster

Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 543
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6Sq62YPnsU

My favorite sport
My favorite team
My favorite player

Naturally seeing my name spammed all over this topic I felt the need to interject with my thought/evidence.

First of all - I've known Telvek for about 2 years, making the PAW flag and helping on a recruiting front to his clan. And I was shocked (as shocked as Adam Goods) when i heard from Telvek "Unfortunately too many Niggers are coming to Europe" and "I am no racist. Some of my best Slaves are black" and although admitting the the latter quote, groentjuh has omitted both. To provide the demo there-in containing this racism from yours truly may create fear of opening said file and you all know I'm a world renowned hacker. However I'm sure Telvek will admit to all the things hes said in relation to race.

I've seen way too much BS from refs, that It becomes understandable these days that games are disrupted by pure trolling. The players cannot be racist yet refs can, exploiters get away with shit because a ref couldn't give 2 fucks, siege spamming is ok so long as its on the refs team...

All in all the fact that this game needs referees is the joke that nobody got 10 years ago, especially considering that technically all this can be automatically adjudicated and prevented with a little brain power from the developer (including mappers) end.

I don't feel Telvek should be a referee, but I don't feel most refs should. Sorry Telvek, I know you stopped kicking me out of common sense like a lot of refs, but racism is just not necessary.

Finally Altair _ I called you out under that alias - It was my first guess and you said no I'm not altair - you bastard Smile

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:34 am
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