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SOMA kicked half of server
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Trigardon
Newbie poster

Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 374
Thanks SOMA for pointing out a mistake I've done in the past.

Because all you do nowdays is hiding, until the day will come when no one saves you.

/Related

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:06 pm
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JmZ
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Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 193
Elendil, sorry for the slow response, there is much to read in this thread so it is difficult to keep track of at times.

I wasn't trying to state that you had done wrong in this particular case, rather that you and many others have been in heated situations in the past. So it is always good advice to try become more friendly with each other.

Anyhow, the demos provide very little context in regards to what happened. This will be discussed with the refs to ensure in future we have a solid reason and communicate that reason across to you more clearly.

I have always argued against kicking whenever possible, so I will try help the refs follow this way of thinking too, if I can.

I hope you enjoy your time playing on the server, if you come across any other problems do let me know.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:19 pm
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Elendil
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Joined: 03 Sep 2013
Posts: 36
Gridfon wrote:
Elendil, the last time I was online (a couple of weeks ago on kayin) you started the game by participating in a friendly racist banter with Captain Kenway and Rin. Then you spent the second part of the game repeatedly trying to mute T1 comm because he spammed kick votes against exploiters from T2 (Captain Kenway and Seven, your team mates). All refs were obviously offline. I saw you voice no complaints against exploiters. I saw you spam "f2" in T2 team chat after exploiters killed multiple shields and T1 wanted to draw. I suspect you did your best to keep exploiters online.

How it relates to the kicking me without a reason? Provide please a demo of full game, because your words is only your undestanding of what happend.

I never violated rules until we have a chance of fair game, but if T1 comm spawned against me with a siege, why should I continue fair playing against him?
The same goes when refs builds exploit subs/gars to win the game - in such situation I also should be tolerant and calm?

Btw you talk about the mute votes as something fobidden - read rules first Grindfon.

Gridfon wrote:

Whereas when the refs are on and exploiters are off, you spend a lot of time trying to annoy refs for no reason. Sometimes you want to enforce non-existent rules, and don't accept ref's attempt to explain the rule to you. Sometimes you have unrealistic expectations from refs, and don't accept any "excuses". Sometimes you invent more ridiculous reasons to argue. Remember the game when I "probably cheated" redstone using my ref when I commed T2 and you played in T1?... It's not just refs who are annoyed, the entire server has to read your complaints all the time.

Can you tell me at least one example when I was wrong in rules? I know them all pefrectly, what is wrong and what is right, and I remember as even you agreed that you missed one point in rules in discussion with me.

About "probably cheated" - that was a joke, I though it is pretty obvious.
Everybody knows that if ref gives stone it is being written with red line in logs, and if you did so I would immidiatelly create a new topic here.


Gridfon wrote:

If you want to be a Social Justice Warrior, at least try being one at all times... not only when it's convenient to you and your team. And try to be an objective Social Justice Warrior, not an emotional one.

No ref should ever do what SOMA did, but then I wonder - may be Elendil is eligible for an exception from being treated fairly, along with subjects like Rin and Captain Kenway?...

I'm trying to fight for a justice, but who cares except me?
Most of refs use rules very selective to gain advantage in the game.
For example, I was slayed by you for slipping onto the top of the buildings to attack them, but for past 5 years I've never seen even a warning for people who uses behe-jump to get an advantage.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:26 pm
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Elendil
Newbie poster

Joined: 03 Sep 2013
Posts: 36
Telvek wrote:
Agree with your statement about Elendil, Gridfon.
However (as trig subconscious mentioned yet) there is no kick on sight on pulse.
Which means you still need a reason to kick any player, even if this player is known as an exploiting, insulting dick^^ (no hard feelings elendil)
I don't wanna defend Elendil, I am still just curious about the reason for the kicks.
Well anyways. Lets see what the Pulse refs think abot the topic.

Np Telvek, I dont like you either from the times you were ref.

But thx for your curious position about kick on the sign.

I'm know that I'm not the calmest person in Savage, but the same time I'm not the worst, and it was wonder for me to revieve the kick for a joke after I just connected, and another one for telling soma that I've created this topic.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:34 pm
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Elendil
Newbie poster

Joined: 03 Sep 2013
Posts: 36
JmZ wrote:
Elendil, sorry for the slow response, there is much to read in this thread so it is difficult to keep track of at times.

I wasn't trying to state that you had done wrong in this particular case, rather that you and many others have been in heated situations in the past. So it is always good advice to try become more friendly with each other.

Anyhow, the demos provide very little context in regards to what happened. This will be discussed with the refs to ensure in future we have a solid reason and communicate that reason across to you more clearly.

I have always argued against kicking whenever possible, so I will try help the refs follow this way of thinking too, if I can.

Jmz, can you tell me please what I did wrong?
I've provide you with 2 full demos - this is the only two games which I played that day, you can check it by logs if you store such info. What is unclear from this demos?
I didn't recieve any warnings or complains from soma for last weeks, so why the hell I was kicked? Because some girl denied to sleep with him?
It's childish reaction

Quote:

I hope you enjoy your time playing on the server, if you come across any other problems do let me know.

As I said, I wont play your server until you have such refs.
I liked it from the beggining because refs on your server were afraid of exploiting and violating rules(even drk was afraid to change map on his own and build exploit subs).
But I will beter play on Groen with exploit subs becuase I know what to expect from drk, than I recieve a kick without any comprehensible explanation from soma again only because he "isn't in mood"

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:44 pm
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Trigardon
Newbie poster

Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 374
One side-question:

Why can't SOMA just ignore cheap bullshit like that?


P.S.: Every referee I know does. If it's exaggerating actions are unavoidable...

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:47 pm
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Gridfon
Newbie poster


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 238
Elendil wrote:
I'm trying to fight for a justice, but who cares except me?
Most of refs use rules very selective to gain advantage in the game.
For example, I was slayed by you for slipping onto the top of the buildings to attack them, but for past 5 years I've never seen even a warning for people who uses behe-jump to get an advantage.

Most refs are people that want to play a game, rather than go in specs every time player X thinks that player Y is camping at a spawn point (which nearly always happens to be player X not understanding the rules). It's good that players seem to care less about camping nowadays. Hopefully, one day that troublesome rule will be removed altogether.

The refs that do try to enforce all rules and pander to all complaints end up abusing and/or burning out. One way or another, the end result is that many refs won't act on things that do not directly affect them. (Hence your perception that they only want to gain advantage).

JmZ seems to understand that, so he tries to avoid all conflicts and allows his refs some freedom. That fosters a certain amount of ref abuse that you will have to live with. Groentjuh's style is different but his ref system has a bunch of its own problems. Neither of the two ref systems truly work, but that's the best we could come up with over many years. I like some things about each of the two ref systems.

I don't think you're any good at fighting for justice, Elendil. I looked at your posts in this forum and every single post is about "ref abuse" against you. Why do you spend months escalating your conflicts before you come to the forum and complain about the outcome (e.g. about some ref allegedly running out of patience)? You're no better than all those refs that only act when things directly affect them. And you're probably worse because your behavior facilitates refs burning out and giving up on whatever were their intentions to be helpful.

If you truly cared to make the game a better place, you had to look for constructive and timely ways to do that. You could become a ref and help to fix the things that do not work, but it's too late for you now. You could start public discussion about how to improve things, or participate in existing topics, but now it's too late for that either. May be you can still find a way.

P.S. Not really appropriate to post Elendil's demo in SOMA's topic so I pm-ed it to him. If anyone else wants to see it for whatever reason, you can ask me to send it to you.
P.P.S. Regarding the "even you agreed that you missed one point in rules in discussion with me" part... Elendil, as soon as you left the server, sorel convinced me I was wrong to agree with you. If you still care, perhaps you should create a public topic and ask the current refs to clarify it to make sure all of us understand it correctly.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:15 pm
Last edited by Gridfon on Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gridfon
Newbie poster


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 238
Trigardon wrote:
Why can't SOMA just ignore cheap bullshit like that?

It can be hard to ignore bullshit. Not when someone is trying to grief a ref in a dedicated way over a long period of time, even if using only the "allowed" ways to grief.

EU servers had some annoying cases in the past. I have rather bad memories about Haika and Misch from 2013. Perhaps some refs would put Elendil on this list. Depends on one's perspective.

Groentjuh's refs were not allowed to ref against such players. You had to listen about how horrible you were as a ref whenever you were online, as long as they did not use direct insults. I remember that Skuggi cited the constant griefing as a contributing factor to quitting (although, to be fair, I think Skuggi would have quit regardless).

JmZ's refs on US were normally free to mute/kick annoying guys like that. I like this freedom in general, but it's very easy for a ref to confuse reasonable self-defense with outright abuse. Go figure.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:48 pm
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Elendil
Newbie poster

Joined: 03 Sep 2013
Posts: 36
Gridfon wrote:

P.S. Not really appropriate to post Elendil's demo in SOMA's topic so I pm-ed it to him. If anyone else wants to see it for whatever reason, you can ask me to send it to you.


Finnaly I've found some time to watch the demo, and now I see you're trying to spoil my reputation without any reasonable facts.

You can share demo to whatever you want.

But for the community, I want to say that Gridfon's best friend Segea Slave whom his is protecting:
1. Racist
2. Well known siege spawner as a commander


You've blamed me for mute and kick votes against him, but everyone who will watch demo, will see:
1. Mute vote was after 10 failed kick votes - this is distructing from the game, and thats why we have mute vote, and it was absolutely legit. Refs will definetely mute everyone for 10 kick votes in a row.
2. Kick vote against him was called after he started spamming in chat "n-word", direct speech(letter "i" replaced with "*"):

Code:
Segea Slave: n*gger cunt exploiter
Segea Slave: N*GGER ON TOP OF MOUNTAIN WHIT SUMM
Segea Slave: N*GGER ON TOP OF MOUNTAIN WHIT SUMM
Segea Slave: N*GGER ON TOP OF MOUNTAIN WHIT SUMM
Segea Slave: N*GGER ON TOP OF MOUNTAIN WHIT SUMM
Segea Slave: N*GGER ON TOP OF MOUNTAIN WHIT SUMM

<here a bad guy Elendil called kick vote>

Segea Slave: u fuck n*gger too


Good job Gridfon, finally you have found a friend of yours who can share common thoughts with you.
But please dont try to associate kenway with me, better watch about your friends.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:42 pm
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Gridfon
Newbie poster


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 238
I'll take the further discussion of the demo to PMs.
Elendil, I will send you a PM at some point on Monday or Tuesday.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:01 am
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djinghis
Newbie poster

Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 537
Stringer wrote:
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, and it is indeed whole essence of refs job to make a call and take action in a way he or she sees fit.

I want to state my opinion, just for the record, so it will be out there on the internet (and so later on I can say "I told you so" Smile )

In my eyes, kick is the last option, only to be used when there are no other options left and there are heavy reasons to go through with it.

Lets make one thing clear: savage population is low as it is, so removing an active player is an action that damages savage game as a whole.

In order to justify that damage, player actions must damage whole game/server even more. And I mean, damage whole game, not just one person experience.

Three examples:
1) djinghis commands, bails mid game which ruins game for his whole team. He does this 3 times in a row, and on 3rd time he not only bails buy joins opposite team to siege his own base.
In doing so, he ruins the game for not just himself or some one guy, but for basically whole server, who can't get a decent game 3 times in a row.
Therefore, removing him adds up to more good than bad, so he was kicked.



That's completely out of context, and you know it. Not only did I want to command but I wanted a fair game. For those 3 games in a row I only bailed on the second in the dying seconds and the last I switched teams. The reason was Veterans aka you, shag and defacer stacking every game - not unusual. So I joined and became the hero and you got red faced and kicked me.

So much for your concern about low population when you act like a right faggot all the time with constant stacking. With a 90% rate of playing human and relocator whoreing, with low ping and talking about my mother being a whore who should've aborted, this can't be the kind of behavior that leave a positive impression - especially from a ref. Every time you join the server I cringe at your know-it-all-ism and your distasteful personality that makes rin seem like a nice bloke. Your play-style and poor adjudication is reminiscent of the other demo failed ref on some other server.

Not only do I hope you lose referee, I hope you move on from savage and spare us the displeasure of your presence.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:44 pm
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Stringer
Newbie poster

Joined: 28 Jan 2014
Posts: 55
djinghis wrote:
So I joined and became the hero and you got red faced and kicked me.

After third bail, people on the server started calling kick-votes against you which almost passed even without my intervention, and were asking me directly to kick you for your actions.
You became a true peoples hero indeed.

djinghis wrote:
talking about my mother being a whore who should've aborted

I am calling your bullshit on that.
Screenshot please, unless you're a liar.

djinghis wrote:
I switched teams

I can rest my case here.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:13 pm
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djinghis
Newbie poster

Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 537
I don't need to prove that you're a dickhead, you do that just fine.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:00 pm
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The Raging Asparagus
Newbie poster

Joined: 18 Mar 2016
Posts: 121
Amazing to re-read this thread where I actually defended that monster SOMA..
Half a year had gone by and SOMA decided he is king of the world again.

Unbelievable this guy is still ref.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:29 pm
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