Joined: 09 Nov 2014 Posts: 77
Element abuse - Doesnt understand rule 7 (AGAIN) locked a player who teamswitched for fairplay, to specs Demo of the event:
Note: I was not active in this, i was merely observing. The people who are important to understand the context is Shagroth, Worker #1 (Slizer) and Element(commander T2 and referee)
Important events in the demo (its about an hour long):
Take especially a look at the chat from 51 min and outwards (gameplay wise nothing special happends)
Around 51 min out: Slizer changes teams to even out teams since humans have started to quit
around 53 min out element does something with Slizer 1
around 57 minute Element locks WOrker #1 to spec, for no valid reason at all.
Element also gives his explanation in the chat in the end.
My opinion on this is clear - this man is not fit to be referee.
Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:00 pm
Joined: 25 Sep 2014 Posts: 523
But JmZ said case closed regarding element - so he can do whatever the fuck he wants from now on, we're better going back to groent servers imo. Even other refs face palm when he kicks comms mid game for something they said 2 games ago and ruins a game.
Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:00 am
Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Posts: 237
Type "demo_settime 1500" in console. This will get you exactly to where the conflict started.
Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:56 am
Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Posts: 93 Location: Complaints Desk
Watch mine instead to see the ups and downs of that game and see just how important slizer was for me and how I didn't wrong him and gave him a chance initially but saw how detrimental it was to my team. I tried switching him back once but he didn't want to come back, so instead of always switching him back and forth, I locked him to spec. This demo might give you a better idea since I'm the team 2 commander. Watch how quickly he started destroying my base with little to no resistance when he switched and I gave him a chance. I wouldn't call that exactly fair to me or my team (any team for that matter). When teams rage quit, I don't even them, I let people vote for it, even then, I will stop that vote sometimes because it might keep the game going instead of ending it at a crucial time (I use my common sense there). And yes, I do that when I'm on the team that is losing as well. Their team rage quit and we started winning. We were all fighting hard for about an hour, why should we instead choose to lose and have all that work taken for granted?
I was also going to post the choke demo (for the Achiles case but unfortunately it won't run with XR 1.3 so I'm not sure which one it is). I wish I could show you EXACTLY why I team switched that game, I was working for the team and I felt wronged. It wasn't a matter of having officer or not, it was a matter of not having buffs. Either way, I bit my tongue and I decided to agree with YOU guys instead of my personal opinion, next time I'll just go to spec.
This is my account of the game:
We were playing choke, their team had us dominated and we didn't have a single garrison (maybe 10 minutes into the game).
I tried making plays to destroy their subs for 5 or so minutes and it wasn't going anywhere.
I looked at team stone and we had 780 redstone, not enough to get a garrison in the future.
I coiled my way through their team and sneakily made it to a mine, where I ran out of bullets and medkits.
There were 2 scavs, 1 with tempest and one meleeing me. I needed the stone and didn't want to risk dying so I used mag to mine, which bumped our stone to 830.
Achiles and Shapeshifter raged at me for using the mag buff but really, I was helping everyone push their subs but no progress has been made for 5 minutes so I did something outside the box.
Achiles took off my officer. Shapeshifter begged him to take off my buffs, so he did.
I have a long history with Achiles never giving me buffs, officer or gold because I don't help the team in his eyes, and I said at the beginning of the game "I MIGHT TEAMSWITCH A FEW MINUTES INTO THE GAME".
I decided I was gonna do exactly what I said and teamswitched. It's funny coz no one commented when I said that I might teamswitch.
They started calling votes on me to kick me.
I muted the people raging on me because it might actually get me kicked. They're many and I'm one, and they don't and won't see it from my perspective until after the game (that's if they even do that after the game).
Rules are there to encourage fair play and make it a fun experience for everyone. I don't care if I'm a ref or not, I will NOT play for someone conceited like that and someone who doesn't understand that I'm on his side and I'm working for the TEAM. However, I will move myself to spec instead next time and fuck up my game, just so people don't troll me coz I'm eLdiablO, the power hungry abusing devil of a ref.
Anyway, we already discussed these internally in depth, but please take a look at the demo, and please relax and see things from my perspective from time to time as well.
Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:07 am
Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Posts: 237
eLeMenT wrote: Watch mine instead to see the ups and downs to that game and see just how important slizer was for me and how I didn't wrong him and gave him a chance initially but saw how detrimental it was to my team. I tried switching him back once but he didn't want to come back, so instead of always switching him back and forth, I locked him to spec. This demo might give you a better idea since I'm the team 2 commander. Watch how quickly my base started going down when he switched and I gave him a chance. I wouldn't call that exactly fair to me or my team.
I already saw a lot of information from Bullet's demo, I just did not comment on it. It's largely a grey area case. Some random thoughts I had:
(1) eLeMenT was a commander; refs always agreed that it's a good idea to avoid using your ref as a commander. Most often commanders are too busy and too biased at the same time.
(2) $lizer swapped into T1 without saying a single word to anyone, and did not answer anything to eLeMenT's immediate complaint. Bad manners. If he asked permission first, things could end up in different ways (including the possibility of eLeMenT allowing him to switch).
(3) It's hard to tell much without seeing number of players in teams, and the scoreboard. Shagroth and Necro were both in T1; but T2 had Blade. Neither team looks too stacked. It looks like a hard game that could end up either way. Beasts built a mid sub 48-49 minutes into the game, so they could start pushing better. The even vote failed at 51:30 minutes, and $lizer immediately switched into T1. The next change to the teams was at 52:50 minutes, "HG PaulX joined team 1" and immediately "ViPStyl3 joined T2" (he bailed from T1 at 49 minutes). So prior to $lizer's switch T1 was down at most 3 people.
I checked eLeMenT's demo to see the number of players and he had (at least) 10 field players around 50 minute mark. So it was roughly 8v11 before $lizer switched.
I think Bullet overdramatized the situation. JmZ told that this was "discussed with god refs", and "ref made a mistake by switching", and "this should no longer occur". I'm not sure that makes sense, because "team is heavily outnumbered" does not really apply to a 8v11 situation 50 minutes into the match. eLeMenT's post seems to indicate he does not agree this was a terrible abuse either. So I'm not sure what to make of JmZ's words; did they only discuss how this rule works in a vacuum, without looking at this game? May be eLeMenT accepted all abuse accusations as a bulk deal, to avoid considering them on a case-by-case basis. As long as the team-switch rule "should be enforced as is stated in the rules" (as per JmZ), I'm leaning towards eLeMenT having made an acceptable decision. Although both sides could handle it better.
Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:26 am
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