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drk
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Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 370
 Server Rules (locked)

Discuss/create/change new server rules here.

ps: I suggest to take current G'n'G server rules and modify them.
My personal wish: don't make them very complicated.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:46 pm
Last edited by drk on Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Telvek
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Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 185
Basically, I agree with Groen's rules, but I would delete/modify a few.
Rules like #1,#4 or #7 are broken all the time without any big impacts on a match.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:16 pm
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djinghis
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 548
This was a (what I though) productive discussion to refining and narrowing rules for general savage fairness, I left it for a time due to lack of participants, but it's still relevant today.

http://server.groentjuh.eu/viewtopic.php?t=1009

There's no need to adopt existing rules like pulse (lazy) we can completely revamp them to suit our needs, and vote on the more controversial ones.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:00 am
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Marbello
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Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 41
For player exploits such as walking outside of the map, can we move away from "warning first" to "direct punishment"?
People who exploit know exactly what they are doing. Warning them first gives them not only one but two possibilities to sac that shield. Further, it requires continuous monitoring of the rule breaker after the first warning has been given.

Next, let's implement Groen's script that prevents commanders spawning with siege - cause why not?

Last, it would be ground breaking if we could set up a system that conditions continuous rule breakers. This could be something like a point system for things like bailing or exploiting. I am sure Bullet could think of something here too Wink.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:11 am
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Groentjuh
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 618
Location: World > Europe > Benelux > The Netherlands > The hague
Marbello wrote:
For player exploits such as walking outside of the map, can we move away from "warning first" to "direct punishment"?

The server rules he referred to do not contain details about what a referee should do when a client breaks those rules. I do wonder if punishments/referee actions should be specified in the server rules as well. Doing the would likely result in pretty lengthy set of rules.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:20 am
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bullet
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Joined: 09 Nov 2014
Posts: 78
Well, considering that there sometimes tend to be a difference in how referees enforce rules, it's fairly obvious to me that longer rules is of course more cumbersome, but it will provide less disputes overall, and more accurate refereeing.

Honestly, have anyone ever complained about the rules beeing too long before?
I feel like they need to be defined very precisely, to avoid disputes. If a player is unsure about a rule, he can stop the game for 2 secs and just scroll down in the rules and read.

Additionally, it would be simple if we differentiated the rules which are directly kickable or which requires warnings before kicks (yellow for warning, red for direct kick for example). Just colour the text Smile

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:42 pm
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drk
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Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 370
Marbello wrote:
Next, let's implement Groen's script that prevents commanders spawning with siege - cause why not?

Agree. I want this too. The only question is about the punishment for such commander. (I'd turn him into a chiprel/mudent/something useless)
Quote:
For player exploits such as walking outside of the map

I can't do nothing with those who are walking on the map (I can't track it). But I think it's possible to track those who fall down under the map to exploit with the npcs (it should be possible to track z-cords from time to time and to punish those guys).

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:44 pm
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djinghis
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 548
Groents script is simply awful...

Slaying on spawn is adding a step that is simply not necessary, instead it should simply [restrict] units available. Savage resurrection had this right idea (don't laugh) it's true. It allowed commanders to play as players with all units (the way it should be), the issue you always seem to look past is the reason commanders shouldn't spawn siege.

The first and and only reason is the top-down advantage, the vision no other player gets. What if instead of restricting the game, you think about a re-enter timer (like savage res) imagine a commander behe spawning and then has to wait 20 or 30 seconds before re-entering - would this not assist in siege camping overall too?
A commander spawning to defend (90% of situations) would be detrimental to that commander, not being able to command or respawn for a period of time and the thought of siege spawning would be mostly used for (10% of situations - offensive).

This may be beyond python capabilities server side, the whole spawn timing aspect needs an overhaul anyway, spawn times based on 30 second intervals is just an empty meaningless aspect. Well that's my rant.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:06 am
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djinghis
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 548
I should also mention that I personally pushed 2sgames to implement a solution to behe spawning, It was worse that xr for a time where you could simply never get a demo to go off. After the timer was implemented it was a great solution to an age old problem, the old behe commanders were wondering around lost for the waiting period - it was great.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:10 am
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Groentjuh
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 618
Location: World > Europe > Benelux > The Netherlands > The hague
That script, like most of my scripts, can be redone in better ways. Nowadays python can actually do more than when those scripts were created.

It would be possible to remove a siege's weapons from a siege unit when it spawns, so python can start a timer to give those weapons to a siege unit after a certain time has passed.

Python cannot prevent a select players from picking a unit.
Python cannot prevent a select players from spawning.
Therefore the python script developed back then warned and slayed upon spawn.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:52 am
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Marbello
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Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 41
drk wrote:
Marbello wrote:
Next, let's implement Groen's script that prevents commanders spawning with siege - cause why not?

Agree. I want this too. The only question is about the punishment for such commander. (I'd turn him into a chiprel/mudent/something useless)

Groentjuh wrote:
It would be possible to remove a siege's weapons from a siege unit when it spawns, so python can start a timer to give those weapons to a siege unit after a certain time has passed.

I like Groen's suggestion as its not punishing newbie commanders who may not be aware that siege spawning isn't allowed. However; this might lead to issues with Behemoths blocking areas with their large HP. So, other than slaying or NPCs, would it be possible to turn spawning siege's of commanders into a Nomad/Scavenger? After all, there is no need for a punishment for an attempt if siege spawning is 100% blocked.

BTW, if such a script gets live then the rule set can be shortened Wink.



drk wrote:
Marbello wrote:
For player exploits such as walking outside of the map

I can't do nothing with those who are walking on the map (I can't track it). But I think it's possible to track those who fall down under the map to exploit with the npcs (it should be possible to track z-cords from time to time and to punish those guys).

Wow, I didn't even think of that, great idea! Any technical solution that takes out the human is a great one. So eventually, one day, referees can move away from an administrative to a supportive function.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:45 pm
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djinghis
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 548
It literally takes 1 minute to set up an out-of-bounds trigger in a map that takes care of it, either a complete block or and auto slay script, and considering the savage community have only played 10 maps for the past 5 years - that's 10 minutes someone could've spent to completely solve the exploit drama. lets get real ppl, you want to waste your time with overly convoluted rules and refs who can't even read flip books, you're pissing in the wind (yet again).

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:31 am
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drk
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Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 370
djinghis wrote:
It literally takes 1 minute to set up an out-of-bounds trigger in a map that takes care of it, either a complete block or and auto slay script, and considering the savage community have only played 10 maps for the past 5 years - that's 10 minutes someone could've spent to completely solve the exploit drama. lets get real ppl, you want to waste your time with overly convoluted rules and refs who can't even read flip books, you're pissing in the wind (yet again).

I suggest to select the pool of the maps that need fixing and ask newerth mapmakers to do it. It's not hard and it does not take much time to fix well-known places (for example to add an invisible wall to the anvale to exclude all cata exaploits).

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:41 am
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Necro
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Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 14
Location: England
I can try to fix them then get them uploaded. What are the most common maps that are exploited and where is the exploit? I cant be bothered to go through the entire map list.
Seeing as you're the main ref of this server, drk. If you trust djinghis then he may help. Pretty sure he fixed the newhope(or one of it's variants) map and uploaded it to newerth.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:17 pm
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Marbello
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Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 41
There are tons of exploits, maybe open a separate thread with the first post being an overview? Lostwinter, human side, go over the left bridge from the SH, that mountain is leap able comes to my mind.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:47 pm
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