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Feathers
April 19 1994 (30 year old)
  
 Forum index » General Discussion » Groentjuh's Server Forum
server setup
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lololol
Newbie poster

Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 106
  server setup
Hello,
last days developers are so active like never was before, it is perfect! they give community alot of new possibilities, which can by ON at server, something like : squared system, shimmies block, soon will be shop, huge balance changes is coming...
But I am sure , what not all changes is necessary to turn ON...
I think it would be good if we will discuss new changes before apply it at server.
Or here is not democracy? maybe here Groentjuh dictatorship?Smile dunno , I am just asking:)

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:59 pm
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Feathers
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Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 407
 groentjuhs server, groentjuhs settings

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:44 pm
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Skuggi
Newbie poster


Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 514
lololol wrote:
Or here is not democracy?


No, it isn't. Could write a detailed explanation but I don't think that's necessary.

Feathers wrote:
groentjuhs server, groentjuhs settings


Quite simply, Feathers is right. When players join the server it says "Playing on this server is a privilege not a right." Besides, even if we wanted to vote it would take forever to get anything done and only a few people would bother.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:51 pm
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lololol
Newbie poster

Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 106
 ok.. I was just asking Smile

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:44 pm
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Groentjuh
Site Admin

Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 618
Location: World > Europe > Benelux > The Netherlands > The hague
 I'm trying to provide the best possible game experiences to all clients playing on my servers. In general I try to enable the new features XR brings into savage, but not without testing because I do not want to repeat what EvO's servers did.

The past has shown me that I cannot trust even XR's production servers to be 'stable'. With 'stable' I mean that the server is capable of providing a good game experience without noticeable lags/wraps, exploitable bugs, fpsdropping, crashing or stuff like that.

I can take your anti-shimmy patch as example here. It slowed you down when you were near a building and earlier releases could shoot you away. It is enabled now!

Also the XR developers may also release features which some may not agree on because they effect the game-balance or/and gameplay.

Squads is an (poor) example of this, because it forces commanders to use them, which not every commander is willing it or able(SFE*?) to use it. With squads enabled you cannot have officers which are not in a squad, which means these commanders will get a disadvantage if it is enabled.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:24 pm
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lololol
Newbie poster

Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 106
 Yah! this is I am talking about!
don't need turn On immediately all changes!

I would recommend to switch off anti-shimmy till it be polished well and tested at US server(they like it so much, they even have a rules about shimmy ). also with current patch I am starting to laggy (similar to pause laggs) after around 10 min and need to restart client.
And my opinion- it need to be switched off forever, by balance and gameplay reasons even after fixing.

Squad system is perfect example. Probably squad idea was coming from person, who never tried to be a commander nor at public nor at cw games Smile . Definitely it great and would be useful at server for 100-500 players... but not now.

Groentjuh wrote:

Also the XR developers may also release features which some may not agree on because they effect the game-balance or/and gameplay.


this is the reason why i started this thread.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:09 pm
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lololol
Newbie poster

Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 106
 another example of changes, which noone was expected, it was observed only 1 hour ago, probably last update did it: now you cannot see sensored enemies at minimap if you you far from this sensor.... by simple words: now you cannot see gate with 20 behes at you base if you are not at base... when you hear "your stronghold is under attack", you think it is just alone scavenger hit your stronghold Smile ...
so it is critical unexpected gameplay changes at main savage server! wow...
(dunno if it is client side or server side... I already wrote a mail to mohican)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:10 pm
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lololol
Newbie poster

Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 106
 I was discussing with Mohikan about settings, now he post a patch changes here:
http://www.newerth.com/?id=patchnotes

so I am F1 for return back this changes

XR RC3 PATCH (17-02-2010)
Today at 12:13:54 pm by Mohican

(1) New cvars to control shimmying:
* p_shimmyBuilding (default is 0).
* p_shimmyTerrain (default is 1).
(2) New cvar called "p_steepSlopeDecel" (default value 0.1).

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:00 pm
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Groentjuh
Site Admin

Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 618
Location: World > Europe > Benelux > The Netherlands > The hague
 The physics are even worse in that patch. The p_steepSlopeDecel is a major factor why leaps were very resticted near steep hills.

If you return you can only return to XR RC3 PATCH (04-02-2010).

But lololol, can you point out what you really hate about the new system. Could you show me and Mohican so we know what needs fixing! That way we can still move on.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:09 pm
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lololol
Newbie poster

Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 106
Groentjuh wrote:

But lololol, can you point out what you really hate about the new system.


First -mostly I hate Idea what shimmies is exploit and need to be fixed.

Second- "shimmies off" cutting a lot of possibilities! game become much much poorer. Possibilities, what really no have strong connection with first person shooter or strategy mode, didn't change balance, really didn't change anything! just cutting a possibilities!. Possibilities, what give a team walking everywhere at their base, but you need spend some time if you want get some difficult place (like some shield tower behind many buildings, or gate at middle your base)-I think it is natural , what team able to walk at their base...isn't it?
At first savage versions you was able to walk almost everywhere, because was impossible to build buildings close each other, after some time (around 2005 maybe, at evo servers first,param sv_placeBuildingTestScale ) server setups was changed, buildings become closer, but with shimmies you was able to do the same, walk at your base, slower, but possible. and now you cant even kill a gate at your base... What to do with "block behe fly"? now you can fly to places where is nobody able to come... What to do for peoples , who jumped down between buildings, or was closed by building by commander? now players need to type kill very often! I think shimmies, what was 1 month ago is a "golden middle".

third(dunno is it really connected to shimmies or other physics settings)-huge amount of bugs become alive!!! sticking between trees/buildings/rocks/props/invisible props!.../between garrison and workers!./.now you able to stumble everywhere! even at flat terrain!, become alive the problem of different clients, you sticking with person, who have other client version...you are jumping back sometimes without reasons...lags described before(similar to after pause vote)
of course it is possible to fix... but it is a lot of work and for what?
(so this bugs are just temporary and not connected directly to shimmies philosophy Smile, it will be fixed anyway, but why to apply bugged settings to main server?)
Groentjuh wrote:

Could you show me and Mohican so we know what needs fixing! That way we can still move on.

No need me to show, you and Mohican just need to go down from yours "God mode" Smile and just play one game, repair shield, walk from one base to other and you will see all bugs. Smile

so question is not bugs( they was always and developers fighting well with them)
question is "shimmies:yes or no" (huge F1 for shimmies from me), and question is "not well polished settings yes/no" (hard question: from one side they need to be at server for fast bugs detection, from other side - always new bugs+old not fixed bugs at main server is annoying.. even for veteran, but newbie get a picture what savage is very laggy game! he stucked somewhere...will stay at one place 5 min... tell:"what the fuck buggy-laggy game!" press uninstall. and will not come to play next time, and community continue slow die)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:35 pm
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Groentjuh
Site Admin

Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 618
Location: World > Europe > Benelux > The Netherlands > The hague
 Shimming can be controlled by that same variable you quoted above. XR does not require me to keep building shimming disabled. XR has made this a hell lot easy though, that's why at this point it is disabled, as I do not want every newb to just climb everywhere and camp on buildings.


-huge amount of bugs become alive
I myself have not notice this while jumping, sprinting and more against every side of what i could find in crossroads. Having demos or explanations to reproduce those bugs, will be very helpful into solving the issues you face in my server.

As for the 'just need to go down from yours "God mode" and just play one game, walk from one base to other and you will see all bugs.'
If they were that obvious, I would simply do that and give mohican his needed demos or instructions and demand to have it fixed ASAP.
I also want you guys to fun on my servers and not get annoyed by the recent introduced XR bugs, but with such a small community and few populated server my servers play an important role in the development of XR.

So I am pretty much given 2 options:
1 - Rolling back to XR RC3 PATCH (17-02-2010) AND NOT UPGRADING EVER, because there is simply nobody testing or giving feedback. XR's development stops and nothing at all gets added or improved. No XR maps can be played on G&G and ofcourse you have still a laggy effect because the clients have a different version of XR. At the time however it was a stable and good version.

2 - Staying on this version for the time beeing and improving it to something better. However this can only be done when we can help from players who provide us with feedback and 'bugreports' (demo, screenshots and instructions how to reproduce bugs)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:14 pm
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lololol
Newbie poster

Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 106
Groentjuh wrote:
I do not want every newb to just climb everywhere and camp on buildings.

so.. you want every noob with m-bow staying in-front of Stronghold and veteran preds with rabid farming them.... you called this "fair", and siege camp rule also exist for helping poor veteran preds...
this how "fair" is understanding at this server.. Smile...anyway community want this - community have this. Smile

Groentjuh wrote:

-huge amount of bugs become alive
I myself have not notice this while jumping, sprinting and more against every side of what i could find in crossroads.

crossroads very old map well made, without any invisible props and textures, so almost no possible to observe bugs at it, only strange jumping back and stuck between buildings and duel mode bug(if 2 different version clients are melee).

new maps have some invisible bugs, possibility to stuck between rocks and so on, with previous physics was not possible to fill this- no was bugs for players, with new physics sensitivity is increased,you can fill all this small map shortcomings. technically it is maps bugs Smile but many new maps was made with previous physics, they was tested with previous physics... bugs wasn't observed... now necessary to recheck all maps....or again fixing bugs sensitivity for players.[/quote]

Groentjuh wrote:

So I am pretty much given 2 options:
1 - Rolling back to XR RC3 PATCH (17-02-2010) AND NOT UPGRADING EVER, because there is simply nobody testing or giving feedback. XR's development stops and nothing at all gets added or improved. No XR maps can be played on G&G and ofcourse you have still a laggy effect because the clients have a different version of XR. At the time however it was a stable and good version.

2 - Staying on this version for the time beeing and improving it to something better. However this can only be done when we can help from players who provide us with feedback and 'bugreports' (demo, screenshots and instructions how to reproduce bugs)


NOT UPGRADING EVER is wrong for sure.. probably second way is better, i think future fresh upgrade need to test longer at test server, maybe would be good to keep all pug games at test developer server:) after finish NSL http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,13111.0.html

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:36 pm
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Groentjuh
Site Admin

Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 618
Location: World > Europe > Benelux > The Netherlands > The hague
 Well, then head over here and give mohican and me feedback!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:25 am
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Feathers
Newbie poster

Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 407
 lololol doesn't seem to grasp this

Feathers wrote:
groentjuhs server, groentjuhs settings


PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:50 pm
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lololol
Newbie poster

Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 106
Feathers wrote:
lololol doesn't seem to grasp this

Feathers wrote:
groentjuhs server, groentjuhs settings


Feathers doesn't seem to grasp this: Me , Groentjuh, Mohican and many others developers, admins and referees at the same side. We are not fighting each other, we are helping each other.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:14 am
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