Groentjuh's Server

[djinghis]

 Ref abuse

[JmZ]

thanks djinghis, some new internal rules/guidelines have been written for use of these commands now.

all refs will be following them from now on.

[Necro]

yea, I also had a problem with Dingfire. It's a shame that this kind of stuff is still happening and it's not just him.
Here's a demo of him selectively choosing which rules to enforce then killing me when I block one of his defensive behes...I didn't even get out of map or to terrain that was inaccessible. I am not looking for him to be punished, just want him to acknowledge that he was wrong.
http://www.filedropper.com/necro-xrminishorelineam-11152016-3

[Dingfire]

2. Players are not allowed to exploit the map or the terrain.

* Utilising damage blow-back (i.e. being hit by a behemoth) to reach otherwise unreachable areas. In case a player finds himself in such a spot he is to take the most direct route the same way back.

nuff said

[Necro]

The area I was in was not unreachable!! I was clearly inside the map and didn't use terrain at all.

Maybe if you enforced rule 6 once in the game we wouldn't be having this discussion.
"Players are not allowed to camp at spawn locations with siege units."
"Excessively spawning as behemoth unit, solely for defensive purposes, will be considered camping"

Or do you choose to ignore that as you're commander of team 2?

[The Raging Asparagus]

WOW,
First of all great skills Necro, was very fun watching your demo.

Second, what Necro posted is exactly what happened 2 months ago in a game where Sir Ikaros was behe blowed on top of a corner charm and he got down on the other side, then he was "blocked" behind the charm and lair and ruined the charm.

We had a HUGE argument with Telvek (me and Sir Ikaros claiming this is legal).
Telvek even added a special rule to pug cup clarifying in such cases human player must reloc back or sucide (if he doesn't have reloc).

I believe this is preposterous and the rule MUST be changed:
1) The human player cannot know if beast players can shimmy up to their zone or not (hence they cannot know if this terrain is reachable or unreachable) as it is not blocked by natural terrain, it is blocked by tech.
And in my opinion this is exactly what the rule should say, only a terrain which is inaccessible due to map terrain design should be regarded as illegal.

2) Supposed the human player knows somehow it's a blocked place (by tech) and he has no reloc.
He cannot go back to where he was (since it's blocked) so his only option is to suicide (/kill), hence the act of blocking a behe is "rewarded" by losing all your gold and life.

3) A player using a Behe for defensive purposes should know he is taking some risk and has some responsibility due to blowbacks (otherwise it's brain-dead standing and defending tech in a map like mini_shoreline and many other small maps).
He cannot just assume he either kills the player or if blowback happens the player will have to kill itself or reloc back (it's actually a lot like playing a "sold"/"fixed" game).

4) As I explained Telvek, I believe the rule's pure intention was to prevent blowback resulting in reaching natural inaccessible terrain and from there you have an obvious unfair advantage to just walk the entire map or shoot from above and basically to get to places the map planner didn't intend you get to,
I don't think the rule intention was no to get to places the beast comm didn't intend you get to.

5) A tech block in opposed to a natural block can be sold and in my opinion this is what dingfire should had done.
So this should answer dingfire's question to Necro "how is my team supposed to get there"
As mentioned, you cannot simply surround a heal spire with tech and protect it with behes given the premise they can blowback as they like and the player will voluntarily suicide or reloc.


So regardless of dingfire's actions which are about a rule interpretation I think to better the game this rule MUST be altered.
Nobody wants such an advantage to brain-dead behe game.
And beasts already win most of the matches (statistically) so the asymmetrical equivalence Savage is trying to achieve will be better met by changing this rule.

As long as this rule doesn't change I do wish to ask all referees to interpret the rule based on what I wrote and not what is convenient for you based on the team you are now playing (a known ref symptom )..

[Necro]

Thanks for watching and complimenting. Agreed with everything you said so thanks for typing it out As I said I am not looking for Dingfire to be punished, I merely want the rules to clearly outline what is and is not legal. It seems each ref has a different set of rules that people need to abide by and it's becoming stupid.

[djinghis]

[Dingfire]

It was a small one time joke djinghis, at 5am european time 3v4.
Don't act all drama about it. We all know you are just eager to see me/refs demoted. Still butthurt about me enforcing that ban on you that you got on Groentjuh's server, which you got for adding a hacked map to crash it. Lets not forget. , Careful JmZ , if he doesn't get his way he might do the same to your server!

[djinghis]

[Dingfire]

haha yeah Groentjuh hands out bans for no reason . Stop acting like you are a saint.

As I said yes it was a one time thing, no need to worry about that dear djinghis.

[djinghis]

[coincoinmiaou2]

[Gridfon]

[coincoinmiaou2]

Well even if you answered to my questions i will reformul more clearly my questions to be sure of my understanding : (and im talking about pub games)
1) is attacking on top of building allowed if i can access it by a jump ? (i guess yes)
2) is attacking on top of building allowed if i can access it by shimmying ? (i guess no)
3) is using block behe allowed to get through a beast buildings wall area unreachable allowed even if beast can access it by a sublair ? (?)
4) is using block behe allowed to get through a beast buildings wall area unreachable allowed without beast access ? (i guess no)