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Built an exploit sub as a ref
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eLeMenT
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Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 93
Location: Complaints Desk
 Built an exploit sub as a ref
coincoinmiaou

I was playing today and coincoinmiaou built an exploit sub then acted all innocent like he didn't know what he was doing. I don't have screenshot evidence to prove the fact but I can show you where he built it and who was playing to ask around for fact checking.





Behes were spawning over the sub. This was on lostwinter.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:08 am
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coincoinmiaou2
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Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 71
Location: France
What i built was in my opinion not an exploit sub. In every case if that was really an exploit sub im a noob comm and I didnt know it. That sub was destroyed 1 min after anyway. I placed it north of SH under the big kind of building.

You did trash talk for a long time after this and got muted by other people from the game and not by me. This give me doubt on your ability about working as team with other refs.

To make you know more about me Im a recent player, i started this game around 6-7 months ago i discover many thing like being comm and got promoted to ref recently. Even if that was really a mistake why getting so angry about it ?

PS : Ok i got confirmation by Natsu this was an exploit location since behe can spawn above the building, i saw it many times in this map and didnt know that it was. So my apologize about this sub but I still dont understand your reaction.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:03 am
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eLeMenT
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Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 93
Location: Complaints Desk
They muted me because I called 3 votes saying "Did coincoinmiaou build an exploit sub" so I can screenshot it and post it here as evidence, not because I was flaming. That isn't to say that I can't get very vocal when I feel so strongly about something. I accidentally pressed print screen the first time and it was a black screen in paint instead of an actual screenshot, so I had to do it again. The next two times though, they started trolling me because they got annoyed with the vote and pressed F2. Seeing as I don't have the power to do anything, I felt helpless.

There are many times I felt you were biased with your refereeing and I didn't say anything. Often times when you command you completely zone out and don't pay attention to chat and what is going on so I have to hope you see it by spamming you or calling a vote message. If that fails, I hope SOMA, Telvek, Jegen or drk are around. The other day, two kids, Kenway and Savage were having a flame war for 30 mins that seemed to get very personal and you had 0 clue about what was going on while the entire server was begging to mute them and we were calling mute votes. Even Shagroth said, and I quote, "Every time Savage talks it's like my screen is being smeared with shit". Thankfully, Telvek came online and action started to be taken, and you finally stepped up as well, though unmuted them two minutes later which basically served no purpose.

I appreciate the fact that you made it so far in such a short amount of time but if someone is going to give you referee based on your personality alone, then they're making a huge mistake. If you are inexperienced then maybe you should step back from such a responsibility because the reason I got mad was more than just the exploit sub. How can you be ref if you don't know that what you built was an exploit sub? I don't trust what you are saying, it was a clear exploit sub and I don't think you can even see where you place it from comm (don't quote me on that). Doesn't it occur to you that if something spawns where it isn't intended to, usually by glitching straight behind a wall that it is an exploit? You said you've seen it before!! You don't have to read rules or be experienced in this game specifically to know that this isn't meant to be a game mechanic. Plus, this isn't the first time you do something against the rules then innocently say you didn't know. "Ignorantia juris non excusat", google it.

You moved a player to spec who just joined because you thought he was afk that game and I also didn't say anything (he was on my team, the opposite team, so you couldn't really make an educated decision on whether he was afk or not), exploiters go unnoticed (especially on your team) and it seems like you only take action against rin. I quite regularly get the impression that you are asleep and not 100% there. Savage hasn't been a pleasant experience at all to come back to at times because of this and the lack of moderation. Maybe it doesn't really help my ref application by calling you out but I felt it needed to be done so I will do it, because I have faith in this community and our refs, and that appropriate action will be taken regarding this subject.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:13 am
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coincoinmiaou2
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Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 71
Location: France
Well this story is really becomming funny

You didnt only callvote 3 times but you trash talked too against me as hell and spammed its why the people muted you. (i dont have log but you can ask other players there is on tablescore picture) (and i dont really remember but mute vote was around 90% F1 or more it started with 10/1 from what i remember)

YES when i command i cant pay much attention to chat and do correctly my ref job, does it mean as ref i cant play comm ?

Yes i still have some lack of experience but the rest of ref team accepted me even knowing this. I wanted to join the team to make a cleaner game, as i do many times because Im one of the most present ref atm (except last 2 weeks cause exams). And for my defense Im asking a thousand shit everytime to others ref as for exemple today a bit earlier about when slay campers (made a thread in ref section). And how can I promote my ref experience without being ref ???????
Quote:

The other day, two kids, Kenway and Savage were having a flame war for 30 mins that seemed to get very personal and you had 0 clue about what was going on while the entire server was begging to mute them and we were calling mute votes. Even Shagroth said, and I quote, "Every time Savage talks it's like my screen is being smeared with shit". Thankfully, Telvek came online and action started to be taken, and you finally stepped up as well, though unmuted them two minutes later which basically served no purpose.
You just came back to savage you cant arrive and know what is the best justice, Kenway got a vpn, mute him too long he will hate you and come back in worse so yes mute a few min was imo the best option here to calm them and i did mute again 2 min a bit later when they started again the flame. Flame finally stopped.

Quote:
"You moved a player to spec who just joined because you thought he was afk that game and I also didn't say anything (he was on my team, the opposite team, so you couldn't really make an educated decision on whether he was afk or not)"
YES i moved this man to spec BECAUSE human comm asked me. THEN I did pm him TWICE he didnt answer SO i did move him, and human comm thanked me.

Quote:
"exploiters go unnoticed (especially on your team)"
: i did slay 4 behe from my team (maybe more) to avoid behe camping I never penalized human team because in my opinion they were not breaking rules AND I even defended a human that was attacking above a sublair because he walked jumped on it and didnt shymmed/behe blocked to get there (many players wanted me to slay him). For human team I just only warned once Elendil that did shymmying and stayed + attcked above a building I didnt slay he died and didnt do it again.

Yes as I said Im
Quote:
"asleep"
when I am commander !!!!!!!!

For rin he is spamming racist insults everygame since i started savage xr and i heard he started this trolling 5 years ago. So yes everytime he starts to spamm i mute.

Quote:
"Savage hasn't been a pleasant experience at all to come back to at times because of this and the lack of moderation."
I do agree with this, it's why i joined the team.

Conclusion : now you know all what i had to do in only 1 game + the fact I had to command a team and mark a hord of demo runners coming from everywhere and everytime.

I hope you will finally understand my position,

Regardless,

coincoinmiaou

EDIT : I finally have the log ad proofs, here is some small parts i save the file for if you want more :
Quote:
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> coin
Our Sub Lair has been destroyed!
^clan 82523^Phoe honors his tribe with 3 kills
^clan 82523^Phoe killed ^clan 86322^xD with an uprooted tree
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> ur a fucking red
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> ref
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> and u built an exploit sub
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> a fucking ref

20> ^clan 86755^coincoinmiaou> exploit ?
^clan 86791^tNEmElE killed BeReal with a Rabid
XR_FirstTimePlayer(13) has joined the game
20> ^clan 86755^coincoinmiaou> is it ?
10> ^clan 1548^_K_> sure
12> ^clan 86322^xD> thats what they fucking do
28> sasi> HYEAL ME IGNORE THEM
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> r u fucking stupid
DnA' disconnected
17> ^clan 25542^Bistro> i cant build with a shaman
XR_FirstTimePlayer(2) killed ^clan 16421^Storky with a Surge
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> fuck u coin


Quote:
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> f2 me u little shit
^clan 260^Zeitgeist killed ^clan 82523^Phoe with a Pulse Cannon
^clan 74083^Brainwashed Turk killed ^clan 16414^sasi with a Battle axe
^clan 16414^sasi joined the spectators
28> sasi> dude really go buy a brain
14> ^clan 83924^Natsu> tirzo you'll have to forgive him for being new
28> sasi> youre so dumb
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> new? he's been playing for 5 years supposedly
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> and he's 24, he has a brain
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> he's acting all angelic


Quote:
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> fuck this guy
^clan 84180^Tunahan honors his tribe with 5 kills
^clan 84180^Tunahan killed ^clan 7023^whisky with a Rabid
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> he always does biased shit too
^clan 8467^sirscotofmucks disconnected
16> ^clan 28203^Tirzo> for his team


PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:25 am
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eLeMenT
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Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 93
Location: Complaints Desk
When you post a log, please post a full, unbiased log and not just snippets where I'm flaming. I'm not doing the whole quoting thing it's giving me a headache and it's way too long. I never said I didn't flame, I said that's not why people muted me and I did say that I can get very vocal when I feel strongly about something. How would you feel, if the person who is supposedly keeping the rules together is breaking them? How would you act? Would you not get angry at them? For your information Natsu muted me and was being sarcastic when he said "forgive him he's a new player" because he was angry as well.

Also, what's the deal with Kenway? Just keep muting him until he learns his place, like rin. If he changes his name to something you can't really find, then just mute him based on his user ID. He will very quickly understand why we have refs in place and the mutual respect we expect from everyone. While he has to always be working to refresh his VPN and going out of his game and coming back, you just sit back, relax, identify him and mute him.

The person you moved to spec literally JUST joined the human team because he took my place when my game crashed and I reopened it so I saw him do it. His name was XR_FirstTimePlayer so maybe he doesn't even know how to type? I just played on the US server and we actually had what seemed to be a completely new player, that could be him?

Either way, I have nothing against you, I have something against your refereeing. You need to pay more attention to what is going on and act accordingly. You can't simply ignore everything else when you command. I understand that at the end of the day, this is just a game, so you may not take it so seriously. However, you're a ref, and being around for so long, I feel a responsibility (as do most others) to make sure games are fun, friendly and fair because I've seen it all and these rules are to be respected. They've been made over years of playing the game and tweaked accordingly. It is a form of respect between the players. If you fall asleep, you're not doing your job.

Savage is a game built on teamwork. Most of the people who play it have been playing it for many years and we have all developed mutual respect for each other. It angers me when I see an exploit, especially from a ref, because I care so much about this game. With such a small community, I think you can agree that there is an unwritten honor system between us. I grew up with this game, and I did testing for XR. I mean, I have a PC that can run current games on ultra graphics but I'm playing Savage. If I'm mad or angry, it's because I'm frustrated at what I'm seeing. Don't build an exploit sub when you're supposed to be the person who is keeping the game clean and fun!!! What does that say about you??

Regardless, I'll be taking demos from now on and saving logs if need be so I can always back up what I say.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:09 am
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coincoinmiaou2
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Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 71
Location: France
Quote:
When you post a log, please post a full, unbiased log and not just snippets where I'm flaming.
This is exactly what Im supposed to drop this period did last around 5 min i have to quote your flames to prove you trash talked.

Quote:
How would you feel, if the person who is supposedly keeping the rules together is breaking them?
As you can see in the log quote i gave Sub lair is dead after the first words you said so it did last around 1 min or less and i can tell you it had 0 influence on game. How would i feel ? Knowing my profile and what results the game followed after this (=nothing) i would just have laugh and made him noticed.

Quote:
Natsu muted me and was being sarcastic when he said "forgive him he's a new player" because he was angry as well.
Wrong he tried to calm your useless and child attitude. I talked with him right after the game to know more about that and I know him very well. If needed i can bring him here to confirm this.

Quote:
Also, what's the deal with Kenway?
Refs are working as a team and we already talked a lot about him.

Quote:
The person you moved to spec literally JUST joined the human
Wrong i said human comm asked me to move him spec, nothing more to add.

Quote:
You can't simply ignore everything else when you command
I didnt I slayed many behe campers and still did many things, i just cant act 100 % as ref when comm. Deal with it.

Quote:

If you fall asleep, you're not doing your job.
Ill let other ref talk about it but I think you are the first man to say a ref needs to sit 24/7 spec to do his job and that cant do commander.

Quote:
It angers me when I see an exploit, especially from a ref,
OK true but I already explained myself : i didnt know it was exploit, it had no influence on game.

And know I will ask you 1 thing : Excepted for the useless and with any influence exploit sub that died 1 min after, can you tell ONE thing correct and true against me that I didnt already justify ? I already countered all your arguments but it seems like you ignore them. Wake up bro if you attacking me do it correctly !

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:38 am
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Storky
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Joined: 11 Dec 2016
Posts: 1
Hey, ill drop my 5 cents here.

About match:
We had t1 stack after Shag left, but in case of SH vulnerability it was ok.
Cuz of stack t2 were suffering.
Meantime Element was trying to demorun the core of base throught all army and with all of buffs.
Frustrated he gone raging on everything , afaik raging player loosing efficiency, and problem has been aggravated.

I doesnt saw those exploit sub when constantly demorunned east. And as ref Coin satisfying me, one of the most tolerant ones. Imo ref is not obliged to punish every exploit, he just must to do it unbiased.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:25 pm
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coincoinmiaou2
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Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 71
Location: France
Thanks for your post Storky but here Element is right i shouldnt exploit at all, thing is I didnt know that was exploit. But I try to do my best as ref.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:06 pm
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eLeMenT
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Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 93
Location: Complaints Desk
Literally the only reason I'm gonna sit and have this long, dreadful argument, is because I want to find a reason to replay a game I love. If you really want me to do the quoting and replying thing, then I'll do it. Otherwise, just like everyone else, I simply want to play and enjoy the game.

Quote:
This is exactly what Im supposed to drop this period did last around 5 min i have to quote your flames to prove you trash talked.

Like I said, there was no full unbiased log.

Quote:
As you can see in the log quote i gave Sub lair is dead after the first words you said so it did last around 1 min or less and i can tell you it had 0 influence on game. How would i feel ? Knowing my profile and what results the game followed after this (=nothing) i would just have laugh and made him noticed.

It's not whether the sub was effective or not (fyi I destroyed it), it's the principle I was angry about. You're a ref, you don't build exploit subs, period. Whether it was effective or not is irrelevant.

Quote:
Wrong he tried to calm your useless and child attitude. I talked with him right after the game to know more about that and I know him very well. If needed i can bring him here to confirm this.

Sure he did, but Natsu and I have been playing together for a very long time and I can promise you he saw someone that wasn't his usual self, even said I was triggered, and I don't just get actually angry for no reason.

Quote:
Refs are working as a team and we already talked a lot about him

This point about Kenway isn't really a big deal to me right now.

Quote:
Wrong i said human comm asked me to move him spec, nothing more to add.
I could send you a demo but I unfortunately don't have one right now.

Quote:
I didnt I slayed many behe campers and still did many things, i just cant act 100 % as ref when comm. Deal with it.
Sure, that is true, you're a human at the end of the day. But I wouldn't be frustrated if you didn't completely zone out and only act less than 50% of the time as a ref.

Quote:
Ill let other ref talk about it but I think you are the first man to say a ref needs to sit 24/7 spec to do his job and that cant do commander

If that's REALLY the case then you haven't really been paying attention to what is happening in the community. People were so excited I was applying for ref and the people that want a change like I do will vouch for me. Unfortunately, I doubt there are many that view this forum or will bother because they've made peace with it, but that goes against my personal beliefs and I will definitely put up a fight. If that doesn't work out then unfortunately I will probably quit this game once and for all. EU has had refs for years and I didn't expect to have to apply for ref because they had my respect in doing their job. Most are not active though.

Quote:
OK true but I already explained myself : i didnt know it was exploit, it had no influence on game.

"Ignorantia juris non excusat"


Quote:
I already countered all your arguments but it seems like you ignore them. Wake up bro if you attacking me do it correctly !

I'm not attacking you as a person out of spite and I'm not attacking, period. I'm pointing out what I feel are deficiencies and I'm 90% sure you listened to what I said and are going to improve, you can thank me for being such a stubborn pain in the ass because I believe in this.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:51 pm
Last edited by eLeMenT on Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:28 pm; edited 3 times in total
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coincoinmiaou2
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Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 71
Location: France
What is funny in your answer is the lack of arguments. And you pretend to have the divine knowledge in justice because you are an old player, that makes you very pretentious.

I wont add anything about that because you lost yourself in this thread.

Gl with your apply

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:03 pm
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eLeMenT
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Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 93
Location: Complaints Desk
coincoinmiaou2 wrote:
What is funny in your answer is the lack of arguments. And you pretend to have the divine knowledge in justice because you are an old player, that makes you very pretentious.


Because like I said, I'm not attacking anyone. If I was planning on it, I would've come prepared Smile

You should've simply apologized and said you made a mistake but you decided to blow the thread out of proportion.

I don't have time for this drama and I've been playing this game for years, trust me, I know how Savage can get and I don't want to add to it, which is why I tried to give you concise answers.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:15 pm
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JmZ
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Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 193
This thread is blowing out of proportion a bit.

coin made an exploit sub but unfortunately didn't realise at the time (or didn't agree at the time, that it was an exploit). I am certain he will learn from this mistake, after all, nobody begins ref with full experience.

element, you did flame a little but i would have also got annoyed in that situation. again, though, this is still due to a disagreement between two people, these things happen.

this should have been nothing more than an apology, really, from us, not just coin.

the sub was an exploit and we should all learn from this to avoid doing it in future (and to avoid allowing non-refs to do it). i apologise for the trouble caused by this, its not always easy to align everyone's opinions on what is and what isn't an exploit.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:27 pm
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coincoinmiaou2
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Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 71
Location: France
As i said earlier in first comment
Quote:

PS : Ok i got confirmation by Natsu this was an exploit location since behe can spawn above the building, i saw it many times in this map and didnt know that it was. So my apologize about this sub but I still dont understand your reaction.


And I still say it my apologize about this sub i didnt know it was exploit, I wont do it in future.

Lets end this drama

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:50 pm
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eLeMenT
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Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 93
Location: Complaints Desk
Well said JmZ and I appreciate what you said as well coin. That's the only thing I was hoping for Very Happy

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:25 pm
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djinghis
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 523
Trivial exploit to say the least.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:36 am
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