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Criteria for acting on insults
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Joined: 09 Nov 2014
Posts: 78
 Criteria for acting on insults
What does it take for referees to act on insults?

What is the criteria for a refs to act on insults?

Its a rule, and its supposed to be enforced.

I've seen refs mute, and in rare cases, some kicks.

However, I dont think its enforced properly most of the time, sadly.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:29 am
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djinghis
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 548
rules are as follows...

#1 insults are fine
#2 Unless you insult a ref
#3 If the insult is too mild to warrant kick, the ref trolls them for a solid hour.
#4 If a ref insults you, that's fine.
#5 If a player whos been kicked for no reason submits a demo and complaint thread, a ref and others are allowed to make fun of you and insult you on both server and forums.

I remember this being written in the rules somewhere, maybe someone can confirm this?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:07 am
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The Raging Asparagus
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Joined: 18 Mar 2016
Posts: 127
Well if you kick/mute anyone that said "fuck you" on chat after a buff to the face against them you'll probably end up with half the players..

You have to make some distinction between an occasional insult or mild insult to an actual Djinghis style on-going trash talking and racial slurs.

I do agree with Djinghis that even "looking" at a ref the wrong way can get you kicked/muted in a second.. usually depends how desperate this ref to get the win.

Basically, I don't think you could get a clear-cut criteria here for all refs if this is the thread's goal.
Anyway if there was one I believe C. Kenway and Djinghis would be muted hourly

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:36 am
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eLeMenT
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Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 93
Location: Complaints Desk
This is my personal opinion and other referees may disagree with me or have their personal views on the matter, for which I welcome any input.

I do not tolerate any form of racist remarks and people will most likely be muted at their first or second offense. I also do not tolerate any form of gender discrimination or discrimination towards one's sexual orientation. People, irrespective of their race or gender are welcome to play on the servers.

Every once in awhile you might get a game where things don't go according to plan and players start raging and flaming. This is human nature and unavoidable. If it escalates, mutes will be issued. I usually allow a minute before I give a remark to calm down and get on with the next game.

I'm fine with friendly flaming, most of us in the community have known each other for over a decade now (can you believe it?). When this flaming turns into something toxic and abusive, then warnings/mutes will be issued as this becomes bullying.

I don't care if people attack me personally (a ref), I have thick skin and I always laugh it off, and you see me joking around all the time. I don't feel at all that flaming me takes away from the respect people have for me, I learned long ago that having a big ego is a very dangerous thing. However, like I mentioned earlier, when this escalates and it starts interfering with my and other peoples' experience, mutes/kicks will be issued.

Don't take this as weakness or inability to do my job properly. Being a ref isn't the most straight forward thing in the world, otherwise more than half the players would be muted/kicked. As a ref, it's my job to balance things out and make sure everyone is having a fun, lighthearted experience. I make it my job to be lenient in order to preserve the small community we have.

There is a way to troll refs/people in general, and as long as you don't have negative and/or destructive intentions, you would be surprised how chilled out we all are. The refs are also very responsive to criticism and believe it or not, we DO discuss every issue internally while being unbiased.

P.S: I apologize if I've antagonized you djinghis, and I hope you're aware of why it has reached that point. I hope both of us can do some soul searching, grow, and put this behind us.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:18 am
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coincoinmiaou2
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Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 71
Location: France
There is how i proceed :

insult -> nothing if you cant deal with it then you are weak
Persistent insult vs 1 man / spamm -> warn then 5 min mute then mute for the rest of the game
racism -> 1 warning then mute for the game
abusiv racism as brainwashed -> perma muted

For myself I wont never kick but some others ref will for brainwashed for exemple. I do agree with it this is legit.

Second point I dont care about people flaming me but if this is without any argument and persistant Ill consider it as spam and Ill mute with the agreement of the rest of players.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:42 pm
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djinghis
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 548
Waiting for Jengens thoughts and I use the term "thoughts" loosely.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:21 pm
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bullet
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Joined: 09 Nov 2014
Posts: 78
The reason for rules to be enforced in the game is to make sure as many as possible have a nice time on the server, and to achieve a consistent experience for people, such that they know what they can expect when joining the server. This also implies that enforcing the rules is nescesarry to keep that consistent experience at the same spot. If the referees fail to enforce consistency, the experience will vary more for the players - ultimately leading to lesser players, and more complaints on referees, creating a more toxic community overall.

This is simple logic. Since its obvious you guys have various practices regarding how you act on insults, I highly suggest you start acting on it on same criteria.


What the criteria is, is not up to me to decide.

But let me say this - many people have quit this game because toxic people, even Shagroth have said he plays a lot less because of trolls, retards and kids in the game. Add him to countless other vets. This game is dying slowly currently, but you can help change that.

I also suggest that you guys start a thread for each rule in your little magic referee section on this forum, and discuss each rule and how it should be acted on. Atleast the ones you all act different on.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:35 pm
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coincoinmiaou2
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Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 71
Location: France
Quote:
I also suggest that you guys start a thread for each rule in your little magic referee section on this forum, and discuss each rule and how it should be acted on. Atleast the ones you all act different on.


We already did one for slaying sieges behe sum bali cata.

This is noted, Im creating one about insults mute/kick.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:03 pm
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Gridfon
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Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 238
coincoinmiaou2 wrote:
Quote:
I also suggest that you guys start a thread for each rule in your little magic referee section on this forum, and discuss each rule and how it should be acted on. Atleast the ones you all act different on.

We already did one for slaying sieges behe sum bali cata.


Can you enlighten us about the outcome of your discussion?
I recently heard some novel ideas about siege camping from a ref.
I would like to learn the current Pulse server's interpretation of the siege camping rule before the next time I join a game.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:21 am
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The Raging Asparagus
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Joined: 18 Mar 2016
Posts: 127
Let me say something.
I think many of us have/had hard feelings about few/several/many ref incidents we believe/know we were abused or harshly treated.

We all believe/know there are few/several/many matches that would end differently if a ref wasn't biased against the team he is not in.

However, the situation with less refs or no refs was much worse.
Not only due to prevalence verbal abuse but due to exploit subs/garrs/terrain/catas throughout the day by few players sometimes disguised nicklamers that would just wreck havoc.

I prefer an over-active ref like eLement to a non-ref situation.
I prefer a ref that do mistakes like Dingfire but seems to have learned for it than to let players like Djinghis, C.Kenway and Grapist spam the server with Nazi gifs, exploits and verbal abuse.

And look at that I just joined a noon, no refs. match and #off is exploiting and ruining the match (and I was in his team so it's not like i'm saying this out of spite).

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:56 am
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The Raging Asparagus
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Joined: 18 Mar 2016
Posts: 127
#Off exploits attached.


https://www.cs.bgu.ac.il/~selazvi/offexploitp1.demo
https://www.cs.bgu.ac.il/~selazvi/offexploitp2.demo


When Noobix tried to kick him people f2'd and then tried to kick and mute Noobix.
This is exactly the chaos i'm talking about with no refs

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:38 am
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djinghis
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 548
I'm not sure its the chaos of no refs, but more of a failing by XR and mappers and xr_mini w/e it's called is the 2nd worst map to xr_normalize and should be removed. Also there needs to be some way to shame exploiters but more importantly "buffers" I didn't watch your demo but I saw the game and for someone who only had 22 kills and 38 buffs with 100% exploit building damage, there needs to be some ramifications. mag buffing a scav who is blazing you alone and then block/elect is just shameful and it's been hoffs style for a long time.

No point discussing game mechanics here though or newerth for that matter , all the "good" developers have all left the master gypsie troll to his own haplessness.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:01 pm
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coincoinmiaou2
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Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 71
Location: France
#Gridfon Here is our discussion around siege camp. Im too lazy to resume it so i just screenshot it









PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:56 pm
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djinghis
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 548
I've always found it amazing how ridiculous a camping rule is, and the years it has been nothing but trouble. It's never clear cut in the rules and it's never enforced correctly much less sensibly. I've seen refs mates eg drk camp willy nilly without so much as a warning and the opposite team to the referee receive all the slays. If you can't define a rule properly in the "rules" and have all these behind the scene discussions about how to interpret it, then you really need to think about getting rid of the rule all together.

Having no camp rule is almost exactly how a game plays out without refs present, and I have to say it not that bad.

Excessive behemoth camping wherever is just a matter of blocking it and flying over tech or teaming up and using immob and pulse.
Bali camping - use dodge + temp / blaze - it's not hard.
Summ camp - use mag + immob + coil.
cata camp - use blaze + sac.

What I can see from your internal discussion is simply confusion, abolish the rule and increase spawntime for siege - IT'S THAT FUCKING SIMPLE.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:52 pm
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