Groentjuh's Server

[SAS]

well ale, as u describe it , we can also say the bally who is staying next to SH is not used as offensive, therefore its balanced even with that. i mean that bally is camping and stuck next to SH for a long time, so the advantage for the enemy is that the bally doesn't attack their own base, and the bally is a player who is stuck in 1-2 meters circle therefore it's legit . - in other words, by your own logic , siege camping is allowed since there's an advantage and disadvantage in everything.
I'm not the one who made the siege camping rule, whether or not it's a good rule, i'll let others talk about it.
about excessive camping, staying longer than 1 minute in the same spot is considered excessive.
now drk says that camping in base is legit by the rules unless it's really really close to a spawn point - well, fine by me, but it's super stupid, either u cancel the whole rule, or u fix it. cuz now it's very stupid and i'll be gladly to behe camp in base if that's alright.

to ale, i never said or mentioned u bally whored for stats. i, as well, don't play for stats at all, i don't even record them. i don't enforce rules because ppl statwhore, i enforce rules because they are rules. i do use my brain, and maybe i was wrong this time, but if i was, it's only cuz this rule is not written well. and nobody ever enforced it by the meaning u describe now, but by the meaning i said. but whatever.

[Ale]

[SAS]

my judgement said i need to slay u, by my understanding the fairness of the game.
sieges camping in base is over-powered, no matter if they are next to spawn point or in the middle of the base.
and sieges were slayed all the time when they camped in middle of the base.

[Rene]

Rule is very clear. There we have the major rule, a definition of the word "camping", and two directives that you should follow in two specific cases. That's all.

[drk]

Rene are you playing again ? What about to take your ref back ?

[Rene]

no i'm not playing just messing at forums :p I don't have a stable pc yet
but don't worry by the time i get back i'll give you a hand for sure

[jazzking]

I agree with you Rene but I don't understand why you brought up behes, SAS said he thought the balli was near the spawn point. In such a circumstance there is indeed no ambiguity, the balli is sitting and waiting rather than attacking, with a siege unit, near spawn.

What I think is not clarified by the rules is what qualifies as "near" the spawn point, since it's a very qualititative term.



Ale, if you have done some programming you shoud know it's not easy at all to turn an english directive into some magical script that applies this directive, in fact sometimes it's provably impossible. Human refs have a purpose, even when rules are rightly taken literally. My stance is that
A. Ref actions must be backed by rules.
B. Bad ref actions backed by rules are the result of bad rules.
The rules aren't some 2000 year old document to interpret loosely, they are written in clear english and they can be modified or have details added when necessary.

[Ale]

[SAS]

well it seems i think the whole rule need to be changed, is it normal for a bally to camp next to a shield tower? i never seen such thing allowed. and i don't see much diffrent between a behe camping at beasts base than a bally camping in a middle of human base. both kill in 1 hit , and both the pred saccing / lego demo running usually can't do anything about it.
or, just let siege camp whenever. it's part of the game therefore the players need themselves to find a solution for it. it is also allowed in cws.
cuz the rule as it written like rene quoted is amazingly stupid.

[Rene]

[jazzking]

Ale you seem to say scripting the rules is easy and provide an excellent counter example. Waiting for gate is not camping since camping suggests waiting for units to come close to attack them. I don't think it will be easy to write a script which determines players' intentions.

[SAS]

tbh, if i go straigh by the rule, then also camping next to flag with sieges is not allowed, since it's a spawn point. but if camping next to flag is not allowed, the whole idea about the reasons behind this specific rule are wrong, since the bally can not go into flag, does it?

[Rene]

[SAS]

rene, if the idea of the rule is u r not allowed to siege camp next to spawn point because sieges can easly go inside the SH/lair and not die, aka statwhore, then in flags aspect, sieges can't go inside flag. so it needs to be allowed in flags

if u say the idea is because sieges are too powerful defenders for SH/lair, because they can kill in 1 shot, then this rule needs to be applied on any defensive aspect in bases.

there were not mentioned any other reasons for this rule, therefore clearly nobody have a clue why it was written, cuz each one says something else.

I understand that this rule came for defensive purposes. meaning if u have ballys inside base, it's a bit hard to move fwd and sac or whatever, if u have behes in base, it's very hard to demo run.
yes ofcourse u can shoot down the sieges from distance lol, but would that help u when u also need to fight the rest of the enemy team while shooting the sieges? thats why they made this rule , and it would be stupid to say this rule only applies for 1-2 meters from spawn point and not the whole base.

[Ale]

They made the rule because of reloading, statwhoring ballis, behespawning vs demo runners and behes covering flags. To cover these three cases altogether, they just forbid to camp at spawn areas with siege in general. It covers a bit too much since for instance a cata spawning at a flag that is currently being fought about can't do much more than just die or summoner trying to defend a sub vs demo runners usually fail but better covering too much than too less. But it was never ever about defending your base. I also never saw any referee punishing sieges camping in base away from the spawnpoints as well as players complaining about them. That is something you made up yourself.

@jazzking: Exactly, you need a human being to interpret rules and and player intentions and that is exactly what I'm trying to point out since I started this topic. Thanks for supporting me.