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The time now is Fri Jan 10, 2025 10:13 pm
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Should we be allowed to shoot over terrain at what we can see?

No, it's exploiting.
50%
 50%  [ 1 ]
Yes, buildings that are visible.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Yes, buildings that are marked even if not visible.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
yes, buildings and all marked or not. full exploit
50%
 50%  [ 1 ]

Total Votes : 2
 

 Forum index » General Discussion » Community Server Forums
Over hill exception to the rule
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djinghis
Newbie poster

Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 554
  Over hill exception to the rule
Should shooting over a hill be allowed if buildings and/or markings are visible?
Should we be able to exploit some of the time?

Try to imagine this from all perspectives. player/commander/exploiter/spectator and importantly referee. Think about consequence and prevention, remember what a referee has to witness before he/she can take action, and don't think that your word will be evidence enough if you report exploiting in a game.

I've included extra options regarding marking as it's just as easy to hit a target not visible so long as it's marked (marking is powerful), the provided image source shows important buildings but it could be any building, and siege can make mince meat of buildings - so consider that as well i/e "tech pits" can be easy fodder for a catapult shooting over and into.

I would like to keep a uniform rule for both races, and I know catapult can have more advantages here and there using this exploit, but it would make the rule-set become a massive list of exception I'm not prepared to write let alone referees prepared to read and digest.



PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:05 am
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Asperhead
Newbie poster

Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Posts: 13
 I think it's easier if the map is done properly.

If shooting over that hill makes the map unbalanced for one of the races (unbalanced in that you can't win it without some cheesy rush or even with it), then what is wrong is that hill. Make it taller and then there is no need for extra rules, player complaints and referees actions.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:52 am
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djinghis
Newbie poster

Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 554
Asperhead wrote:
I think it's easier if the map is done properly.

If shooting over that hill makes the map unbalanced for one of the races (unbalanced in that you can't win it without some cheesy rush or even with it), then what is wrong is that hill. Make it taller and then there is no need for extra rules, player complaints and referees actions.


I've been saying this all along, but map admins do their own thing, sometimes if you're very lucky and you badger Tjens for a week constantly - he will make a simple fix of a map eg: watershipdown mid you could get up on top of the hill.
But by the same token Asperhead, I don't see you putting your hand up to fix maps and take the time to learn mapping or marb yet you both have such strong opinions on what should and shouldn't be done Wink

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:16 pm
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Marbello
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Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 42
 Nothing wrong with strong opinions on a question if they're backed by a weighting of arguments. On the other hand, claiming superiority in discussions by authority is the age-old trap in which old man fall. Please no personal attacks, stick to the topic.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:02 am
Last edited by Marbello on Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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djinghis
Newbie poster

Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 554
 Thx for changing your post Marb, now I have to change this so it's in context - serves me right for not quoting I guess. PS nobody voted so that's makes it easy - I'll get 100% and there will be no exception added to the rules Wink

You still have 3 or 4 days.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:41 am
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Marbello
Newbie poster

Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 42
 I'd love the following:

-Exploiting/shooting over terrain remains forbidden for nonviewable buildings for another 4 months
-In the meantime, a plan on how to fix maps will be created and executed. Such could be djinghis creating a youtube tutorial for me and asper on how to update maps regarding exploits, a forum thread with exploits and correlating maps (1st post moderated), .. and we see how far we all come.
-Then, exploiting becomes legal

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:34 pm
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djinghis
Newbie poster

Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 554
 http://server.groentjuh.eu/viewtopic.php?t=613

This is a general overview of both exploit and poor performance fixes to make a map somewhat bearable to high pingers and basic PCs. I can correct the image links that dropbox has broken if requested.

http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,11133.0.html

This is everything you need, I don't see why I should reinvent the wheel, and specifics towards exploits are pretty easy - raising terrain, dropping in invisible blockers, relating to overhill exploit at least.

The best thing players can do ie. ppl who don't want to learn mapping, is report exploits in the following format to a map admin (GL with that).

Map name
Exploit - Nature of the exploit that needs fixing.
Position - Type in the console when you are standing as close as possible or spectating near the exploit.
Code:
cl_positionclient


If you didn't know already, Newerth have deleted all my maps and even one of indis maps simply because he used some of my visual effects. If I were to fix maps, they would never be uploaded to newerth database and therefore a waste of time. I did have a quite extensive map tutorial on newerth a few years ago that was constantly trolled by hakugei aka clemens who continued to spam it with unrelated links and abusive private messages. So you may understand why I'm reluctant to help regarding maps these days. Also worth a mention that I had to wait 7months for someone to check my map xr_doubledragon before it made it online 7 MONTHS, I constantly asked them too.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:10 am
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