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Questionable comming by herO on crush 16.08
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IgorS
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Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 4
 Questionable comming by herO on crush 16.08

This post is directed against herO but it's not about the abuse of ref powers. It's at least as much of a clarification as a complaint so I'm intentionally posting it in the 'wrong' place with a 'wrong' format.

The main questions:
1. Is it allowed to build a sub/gar on one side of the wall and put a shield/healing spire on the opposite side of the wall? I think there's nothing wrong about it.
2. Is it allowed to build a sub/gar through the wall with workers on the opposite side of the wall? I think it's clearly an exploit. In the current context it was used to use a safe placement of spires but generally it's a way to pass through the walls without killing them which was always considered to be exploit afaik.

The questionable action:
herO building and repairing the sub through the wall (and a demo just in case if you have nothing better to do - around 23:30 match time with 15 minutes of spectating first).

And this is the reason it could be considered to be ok:
I: "You just built a sub with workers through the wall?"
h: "Yes"
I: "So?"
h: "There's no rule against it"
I: "It's the common sense referees must be enforcing"
h: "You tell me my job?"

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:57 pm
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DamnCool
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 49
Hmhm, I played that game, but was in bad mood and did /ignoreall, so I did not see any of the conservation. Judging from pictures, it is indeed an exploit.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:22 am
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WinterFresh
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 29
1) Allowed
2) Clearly not allowed

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:26 am
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Moxy
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Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Posts: 291
Location: UK
WinterFresh wrote:
1) Allowed
2) Clearly not allowed


i'll post something about this in the refree sectio nand see if we can make up a rule about it.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:06 am
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Feathers
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Joined: 03 Sep 2009
Posts: 407
1) not allowed, for both races its gonna be a bitch to get that sub/gari down

2) not allowed, self-explanetary

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:30 pm
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Moxy
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Joined: 07 Dec 2009
Posts: 291
Location: UK
Feathers theres nothing in the rule stating number 1 is agaisnt the rules. its allowed.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:43 pm
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Skuggi
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Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 514
I have to agree with what's been said already.

The first example you made is usually considered as fine. That's how it's been traditionally. The second, however, I'd consider as breaking Rule 9 and even Rule 2:

Quote:
9. Commanders are not allowed to place buildings to gain unfair advantage.
- E.g. building garrisons or sublairs behind walls to make players spawn on the other side.



Quote:
2. Players are not allowed to exploit the map or the terrain.
- This includes:
...
* Avoiding map limitations using glitches, e.g. getting over grimm's wall.
...



Because that is avoiding map limitations, and shouldn't be possible...

The problem is that, with the rule being very vague, you could say that the first incident you mentioned might fall under the same category. But again, that's how it's been done for ages and it's hard to change, and I don't intend to.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:58 pm
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Groentjuh
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 618
Location: World > Europe > Benelux > The Netherlands > The hague
- Removed -

Skuggi was ahead of me
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:06 pm
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deathrevenge
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Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Posts: 61
as others already said 1 is allow and 2 not.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:49 pm
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djargon
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Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 206
still i wanne see a demo that proof this actions :p

we can only judge when we see it for real Smile

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:05 pm
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DarknesS
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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 70
djargon IgorS can be trusted. Screenshots from him are enough (imho).

Also as this was no complaint but just an request for some info I don't even see any use in a demo of this incident.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:36 pm
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djargon
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Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 206
a demo can help to watch the situation better Smile
and i don't say i didn't believe him Very Happy

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:40 pm
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Groentjuh
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 618
Location: World > Europe > Benelux > The Netherlands > The hague
Didn't he already upload that? like: "(and a demo just in case if you have nothing better to do - around 23:30 match time with 15 minutes of spectating first). "
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:38 pm
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IgorS
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Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 4
Djargon - you sound like I didn't provide a demo but most probably I just misunderstood you here. I think you can fast forward it from the start to the end in ~3 minutes.

This is an unknown map with tricky design so you are right about double checking as far as herO is concerned but blaming him is not the main goal I was pursuing. What I expect is either herO jumps in and proves me wrong or feels slightly ashamed + less confident in obviously questionable actions next time. That would be just enough. :-P

The good thing worth saying is that the sub side of the wall was reachable by beasts (in different ways at different time I guess depending on which walls are killed). The bad thing is the beasts didn't seemingly have the control on that side of the wall. And yet it doesn't change the fact of building the sub through the wall entirely with workers. You can clearly see the second time in demo/screenshots and by watching the minimap carefully I believe there was the first time as well when noone was obeying so he had to move the workers and build it in the same way (through wall) on the same spot.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:58 pm
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djargon
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Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 206
sorry i didn't see the demo in the first post Smile

my fault

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:53 am
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