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Is this allowed?
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IgorS
Newbie poster

Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 4
  Is this allowed?
educational topic for refs and minorities
Is it allowed to shoot with cata from this position?

I think it's allowed just like with grimms wall. It does not fall under the rule "Shooting over hills with catapults, or weapons with similar characteristics, if the map design does not allow it." because it's not shooting over the hill in any way - only above the wall.

Today one guy was slayed for doing this. And it didn't look like T2 comm and ref were up to discussion when I was tempted to do the same.

In the past I have seen such cases being resolved in different ways, although it's clearly allowed with my understanding of rules. I'd like to make a precedent by clearing it up on forums once and for all times.

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:40 am
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Skuggi
Newbie poster


Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 514
 Hey IgorS,

We actually had a discussion about the issue you specified when we were discussing the rules for the server. I'm going to copy a few posts from that discussion:

Mischoko wrote:
Yeah and this is another stuff i'd like to know.


Does this counts as an unfair angle? I mean if refs should allow catas do such a things to get sublair behind that ruin_wall.. ? In my opinion its kinda unfair and lame but I talked with other refs and they didnt see anything bad about that Rolling Eyes So thats why i'm asking...


Skuggi wrote:
Angling catapults to shoot further or whatever - Don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as they don't shoot over impassable hills. If game mechanics allow it, why shouldn't we?


lololol wrote:
about catapult exploit:
I will tell you a story of catapult evolution and why this problem exist:
far back in the past catapult didn't change angel and hill, catapult shots was always the same like now catapult shots from flat terrain. Map editor and maps was designed for such catapult properties, catapult exploit was impossible.
but now catapult is different, but maps a the same... modern map designers still not care too much about cata exploit problem.
As i see only 2 ways to stop such exploit: to make a high range limit for cata (we need to ask DJ,maybe it is easily enough to change savage code) or use our refpower.


And to quote the rule:

INFO: Official Server Rules! wrote:
2. Players are not allowed to exploit the map or the terrain.
- This includes:
* Shooting over hills with catapults, or weapons with similar characteristics, if the map design does not allow it.
* Staying on top of buildings to attack them or to gain unfair advantage by doing so. This only applies if you get up the buildings by exploiting. Simply jumping down on them due to bad building placement is allowed.
* Avoiding map limitations using glitches, e.g. getting over grimm's wall.
* Abusing the terrain to get to places other players can’t get to.


Generally catapults and other siege weapons are allowed to shoot over props, such as walls. I don't see how this is different even if the catapult is angled like that. So, to conclude I'd say it's definitely allowed in this instance.

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:27 pm
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IgorS
Newbie poster

Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 4
 Thanks for the answer Skuggi.

The historical lesson from lololol was particularly interesting. Explains "why would you forbid shooting over the hills if catas were designed to do that in the first place".

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 1:32 pm
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herO
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Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 72
Location: graz/austria
 correct answer, skuggi.


yeah, it´s really anoying at omo.
but if beast com is aware of it, it´s no big deal.

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:10 pm
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