Groentjuh's Server

[Rene]

[SAS]

what is a dif between behe spawn vs demo and a bally spawn vs saccer? both kill in 1 shot, both the demo runner and the saccer don't have time to kill the siege unit, and the rule vs the behe is for the whole base and not only at spawn point as someone said a post before. please, some sense.

[Rene]

It is not for the whole base and no one said it, even if someone says something like that, it won't change the rules it's not a part of it. Please use quote

Ok so;

[Tasty]

i guess balli spawn is the same summ spawn and in my opinion not the problem, you can dodge the shots, that not to hard and you can block summs.
as well summs cant defuse demos.

But behe nearly 1 hit you and kill the demo aswell

[Rene]

Ok i see now Tasty brought it up, you are both asking why behemoths are more priviledged to other sieges by rules, eventhough they are more powerful.

+Behemoths sometimes do act like siege shields for spawnpoints, ballistas/catapults/summoners can't.
+Some Behemoths spawn just to intimidate players away without actually killing them. Other sieges do that too, but not as effective as them.
+Some Behemoths just spawn and push forward, but if you see him spawning right as you place a demo. What will you think? A rapid slay?

As you can't mindread players' intentions, it's very natural to have a loose rule about Behespawns.

To avoid misconflict and malpractise of referee, you should be patient and observe, best place to do it is ofc from Specs. But i remember you want to play the game instead, so you'll have to stick to being patient

[Tasty]

it seems like you talking about generally Behemoth spawning,
but i mean, if you can clearly say. the Behemoth spawn for subs or flag and kill the guys aroound and go back in sub. why im not allowed then to warn and slay them!?

And i dont care if he blocks the balli/cata shots. this defense is different between the spawning to kill humans.
Because Ballista/Catapults are on Range and can attack easyly other targets or kill behe and get then damage on sub.

Sry fpr bad english btw.

[jazzking]

[SAS]

rene , u agree that ballys r very powerful, therefore should be forbidden aswell, that i agree with u.
tasty, it's not so easy to dodge a bally, and u can say the same vs behes, all humans need to do is to take immobs instead of reloc and immob the behe and continue to the rest of the base (i refer to the rule that behe camp in BASE is not allowed). humans taking immob instead of reloc is fair, since also beasts don't have reloc. so if u disagree to behe camp, then also u should disagree to bally camp.

and thats all i want to get out of this discussion.

[Rene]

[Ale]

Seems like SAS made some bad experiences with ballies in the past . Anyways, I started this topic because I had the feeling that SAS is seriously misunderstanding some rules and is absolutely reluctant to accept his failures. I guess this has been proven. Someone plz do something about it.

Cheers,
Ale

[SAS]

[jazzking]

I agree with SAS personally, imo the "next to spawn point" restriction should be changed. Balli and summ campers can simply walk a bit away from spawn and continue to camp, slowing down games.
When you die to siege it's easy to feel you hadn't done anything wrong (nothing you could have done different), it's much more frustrating than normal deaths. I don't think behes are as bad since you don't have to deal with them if you don't want.

Anyway that's just me.

[Groentjuh]

I think that rule will only change when:

• There is a rule which can replace that rule.
  
• This new rule can be enforced by referees and preferably a script (or at least assist!).
  This means it needs to be pretty clear what is and is not allowed.
  
• Most players and referees agree to that rule.
  
• It should be rememberable.
  This means to should be rather short, with possibly a few additions to clear up certain situations.
  

Feel free to work towards the things in the list above.

[Rene]

^my personal opinion is rule doesn't need a change, siegecamp is only frustrating near spawnpoints.

And sas is the only person i've seen so far getting a wrong hang of the current camp rules. i don't mean by changing them, but he misunderstands and demands clarifying